Is there a moment in the show that for you was the coldest, the iciest? You mentioned being concerned about being too sentimental or being too soft at times. But were there moments where you were like, “I don’t know…this might be too dark”?
Too dark… Bringing those raw recruits into Ghorman as cannon fodder, I remember Danny [Gilroy, his brother and fellow writer on Andor] called me up with that idea. [The Empire] gives them up as target practice to start the massacre. It’s a pretty sad idea.
They are just young boys, practically. Clearly, they don’t know they are being marched to their deaths for a publicity stunt. It challenges the viewer to feel sympathy for somebody in the Empire.
Hell yeah.
In that sequence, the Empire essentially stokes a violent reaction from the Ghorman people to justify crushing them and seizing the planet. That’s another important idea for the rebellion-minded: When you believe strongly in something, it’s easy to be led into a trap by that passion. You have to be smart and step carefully when you are engaging in resistance.
That’s happened so many times before. “We need rebels that you can count on to do the wrong thing when you want it.” I mean, that’s happened. It goes back before Caesar. It probably goes back to the first friggin’ campfire. That’s a tried-and-true technique.
Even before she was Lucasfilm’s president, you worked with Kathleen Kennedy for years on the Bourne movies. Everybody is calling Andor the most grown-up Star Wars story told so far. Can you describe her role in this?
Well, she kind of snuck me into this thing.
She trapped you?
[Laughs] Yeah, she kind of seduced me into it. There was a period of time where I really wanted the show to die and I wanted to get out of it. When COVID came, I thought, Oh, thank God. COVID will kill the show, and I won’t have to do it. So there was a long period of time where I was like, I can’t believe she got me into this.
Why did you want it to die?
Because we had scripts going, and I was going to direct a bunch of episodes, and we were in London—we were casting—and I was just absolutely naive about what it would take to make the show. I really did not know what I was doing at all, in terms of the scope of work. So when COVID came, it was like, Oh, you know what? That’s a sign from God, no show. But the irony is that during that spell, we really figured out how to make it. We figured out a system to do it and got enough of a reset and a deep breath.
How did Kennedy help with that?
She has protected the show and protected me and wrangled a team together. When we started challenging Kathy, Kathy just kept saying yes. “Oh, I’m going to put the first scene in a brothel.” “Okay.” “I’m going to have them kill two cops.” “Okay.” “We want the production designer from Chernobyl.” “Okay, good idea.” She backed our play and got everything that we were doing. We’ve been through everything, she and I, on this—all the good and all the bad. There’s no show without her. For all the shit that she takes online, it’s just insane. This show exists because she forced it to happen. What a tough job she has, man.
Has George Lucas seen Andor?
I don’t know. Not even rumorwise. I’ve only spoken to him once, after Rogue One. I spoke to him on the phone. He was congratulating us. But no, I’ve never met him, and I’ve never talked to him about it. I don’t know.
You’ve said your tour in Star Wars is over for now. What’s next for you?
I’m trying to get a movie off with Oscar Isaac, a movie about movie music. It’s set in LA, so I’m following the tax credit thing very carefully. Money’s tight. But it’s a movie that I really want to make. A really interesting, cool idea. And I would be directing. We have everything ready to go. We’re just trying to get to the number, you know?
This interview has been edited and condensed, with some additions for context and clarity.
